So what kind of peak mileage are y'all planning on hitting? Personally I haven't been following Scott's training plan just because of the whole starting 1 month late and foot problems, but I'm trying to gauge what kind of peak training you guys are planning on. I keep feeling that getting up to a plateau and holding a peak mileage is the best way to do it, as opposed to doing a sharp peak and drop off. I was thinking like:
1st July: 30
2nd July: 40
3rd July: 50---------- already done obviously
4th July: 40
1st Aug: 60
2nd Aug: 60
3rd Aug:70
4th Aug:60
or something. One of my good friends at home who runs for UPenn, Tarik, has been holding 85 for 4 weeks now, which seems pretty cool. I mean he is North African and never gets injured like Matt, but he swears by it. I actually went running with him the other day, which happens once every so often, when my hard day coincides with his easy day. I ran with him over winter once, which was an adventure in its own. During the winter break, our HS track team, which his brother is currently on, has meets at an indoor track in this really bad part of town. Like its not open gang warfare on the streets like some parts of D.C. proper, but its 100% black, bad crime, people's car's get broken into while at the track meets type area. So Tarik was going to watch his brother and I came with. We both had to run that day, and weren't planning at all on doing it there, but we did. We decided to go 22 minutes out and back on local streets. I was quite out of shape at this point, but was up for an adventure. So here we were, in the depths of winter, snow on the ground, freezing cold, a N. African and a white kid in t shirt and running shorts plowing along at 7 min pace through the streets of D.C. At one point we ran through a projects and I was literally scared for my life, big black guys in their Down jackets staring at us with a "get the fuck out of here faster than that" look. I was not planning on running a 42 min 6 miler that day but I threw up my breakfast before I slowed below 7:30 pace, which by the way happened only once I had gotten back the the indoor track facility. This time, our run wasn't nearly as adventurous as that, and not nearly as cold, but just as hard. Wow I have really digressed.
Anyways yeah. I feel like the first week of pre-season is tough, not mileage wise, but workout difficult goes up substantially. Its a lot easier to run hard every day when you are with a team of fast guys then by your own in the 95 degrees steaming humid stream valleys. So is a mileage drop necessary the week before pre-season begins? What do y'all think?
Official Poll Results:
Most of us are not injured and running. Let us rejoice!
We think that Bolt and El Guerrouj are dirty and that Big Bekele is clean. We're not sure about Seb or Geb.
Kara Goucher wears the pants. Adam carries the baby sling.
If our coach had a lesser opinion of our athletic potential than ourselves, a slim plurality of us would want him or her to let us know.
When given the choice between being the world's best and dominating runner in one distance event or ten billion dollars, we would pick the former...barely.
If we could be any Caltech runner besides ourselves, we would most likely be Ian. Garrett, Katherine, Mark, and Rosen come in second.
Four out of four voters agree: everybody should update his or her log more often. I mean, seriously.
If we could be a world-class runner in one distance event, we'd pick either the 800m, the 1500/Mile, or the Marathon. The 10000m, steeplechase, and ultra-marathon come in second.
The cross-country course at Bush's Pasture Park in Salem, Oregon is more enjoyable than those in Chino, La Mirada, and even Riverside. It's also more enjoyable than "Your Mom," but that's not a legitimate cross-country course.
Markkimarkkonnen and Billy 'Reclaimed Water' Zdon are even money for being the craziest Caltech runners.
"Ribwich" is the most under-utilized nickname for a really skinny runner. "Pork Chop" and "Bones" are pretty good, too.
Alan Webb was more disappointing than Adam Goucher at the 2008 US Olympic Trials.
The 1500/Mile is the most fun distance event to race.
Out of the entire North Field Track Club, Markimarkkonnen is the most likely to fail a gender test.
Katherine should run the 1500 - 5000 double at conferences.
Katherine should focus on the 5000m this track season, based on the Goldilocks Principle (it's juuuuust right.)
Sara Hall, or Both Ryan and Sara At The Same Time
In the past four weeks:
77% of us have consumed alcohol, 77% have used Gatorade, 55% have used Endurox R4, 44% have shaved our legs, have smoked pot and 11% have used EPO.
Tyson Gay is the best 100m runner in the world (right now).
Matt Tegenkamp is the runner most likely to break Bob Kennedy's American 5000m record.
This is a pipe. Also it is Ian's Bones (see right). I
wonder if Ian's hollow bones means he can fly like a bird.
Highway 39 (or some variation) is a totally sweet ride and is the favorite of many.
Alan Webb will get First Place (GOLD, BABY!) at the 2007 Osaka World Athletics Championship!!! (If we are wrong we suck).
This Nerd-Jock Blog is Amazingly Awesome, the best idea ever, but it borders dangerously as a huge waste of time, which is why we're on it, voting.
The Last Stage of the Tour de France is a fine tradition honoring the great acomplishments of the previous weeks' racing.
Most anticipated log: Ian's Exercise Log
We think that Bolt and El Guerrouj are dirty and that Big Bekele is clean. We're not sure about Seb or Geb.
Kara Goucher wears the pants. Adam carries the baby sling.
If our coach had a lesser opinion of our athletic potential than ourselves, a slim plurality of us would want him or her to let us know.
When given the choice between being the world's best and dominating runner in one distance event or ten billion dollars, we would pick the former...barely.
If we could be any Caltech runner besides ourselves, we would most likely be Ian. Garrett, Katherine, Mark, and Rosen come in second.
Four out of four voters agree: everybody should update his or her log more often. I mean, seriously.
If we could be a world-class runner in one distance event, we'd pick either the 800m, the 1500/Mile, or the Marathon. The 10000m, steeplechase, and ultra-marathon come in second.
The cross-country course at Bush's Pasture Park in Salem, Oregon is more enjoyable than those in Chino, La Mirada, and even Riverside. It's also more enjoyable than "Your Mom," but that's not a legitimate cross-country course.
Markkimarkkonnen and Billy 'Reclaimed Water' Zdon are even money for being the craziest Caltech runners.
"Ribwich" is the most under-utilized nickname for a really skinny runner. "Pork Chop" and "Bones" are pretty good, too.
Alan Webb was more disappointing than Adam Goucher at the 2008 US Olympic Trials.
The 1500/Mile is the most fun distance event to race.
Out of the entire North Field Track Club, Markimarkkonnen is the most likely to fail a gender test.
Katherine should run the 1500 - 5000 double at conferences.
Katherine should focus on the 5000m this track season, based on the Goldilocks Principle (it's juuuuust right.)
Sara Hall, or Both Ryan and Sara At The Same Time
In the past four weeks:
77% of us have consumed alcohol, 77% have used Gatorade, 55% have used Endurox R4, 44% have shaved our legs, have smoked pot and 11% have used EPO.
Tyson Gay is the best 100m runner in the world (right now).
Matt Tegenkamp is the runner most likely to break Bob Kennedy's American 5000m record.
This is a pipe. Also it is Ian's Bones (see right). I
wonder if Ian's hollow bones means he can fly like a bird.Highway 39 (or some variation) is a totally sweet ride and is the favorite of many.
Alan Webb will get First Place (GOLD, BABY!) at the 2007 Osaka World Athletics Championship!!! (If we are wrong we suck).
This Nerd-Jock Blog is Amazingly Awesome, the best idea ever, but it borders dangerously as a huge waste of time, which is why we're on it, voting.
The Last Stage of the Tour de France is a fine tradition honoring the great acomplishments of the previous weeks' racing.
Most anticipated log: Ian's Exercise Log
12 comments:
You said:
"I keep feeling that getting up to a plateau and holding a peak mileage is the best way to do it, as opposed to doing a sharp peak and drop off."
I guess you can do what suits you, but I'm a big fan of the up weeks and down weeks. Basically, knowing that you're going to have harder and easier weeks, and planning them out like that keeps you psychologically refreshed. You can focus on your up weeks, and sort of sit back and relax on the down weeks.
I mean, who ever said it has to be a sharp peak either? Some guys will choose to go 40-50-60-40-60-70-80-60, and sure that might be sharp for some and not for others.
But even if your plan is to go 30-35-40-45-50-60-60-60-60,
I think its better approached with down weeks longer term, such as,
30-35-40-30-40-45-50-40-50-55-60-50-60-65-70.
Basically, just having those down weeks help you so much physically and mentally. You push the mileage and there's a stress, so your body reacts to it, but after a while sometimes there can just be lingering fatigue and down weeks help to prevent that.
My friend at Rice was running 90-110 miles a week for a few months, and came off very little quality work to run 15:49 5k indoors (not bad for a 5:05, 10:22 high schooler). Basically, he needed those down weeks to progress to that level. His coach was about patience, so over the course of maybe 18 months he worked his way up from 50 miles a week, up up and down. Basically he said, down weeks are key to keeping your mind fresh because at some point pushing the mileage just becaue increasingly harder.
Basically, I think that there doesn't necessarily need to be a "sharp peak" in order to necessitate a drop off. In the end, drop offs are great.
I mean, what you listed there is basically right. You have three "up weeks" of 30-40-50" then a down week of 40, then up weeks of "60-60-70" then a down week of 60. I would suggest you change this maybe to 50-60-70-50. It seems like you're skipping a bit of stepping stone in the 50 mile weeks by only having one of them.
Anyway, this summer, my peak mileage is 35 miles a week. Nothing big. But then again, I am no longer bound by track and cross-country seasons. I'm happy about that because I seriously get incredibly depressed (like, am upset all the time, freaked out, sad, worried. Think "Megumi") whenever I get an injury or cold. At this point, I can just sort of roll with building up a base, and if there's slight setback, no worries, I'll take an easy week and start again.
Also, make sure your foot is good.
I have been doing the "steady increase" method and I am feeling pretty good. I've been doing combo running and biking with the biking just being commuting to work with a big hill to add another 1.5hr per day working out. My peak mileage (which I should be meeting this week if all goes well) is 50 miles per week.
That said, the last few weeks (45 and getting to 50 mpw) I've found myself increasingly tired on the bike, so I've decided until I acclimate to the increased mileage I'm going to take the bus more often so my legs can recover.
This all makes me wonder, why do they recommend peak miles for women less than peak miles for men? (Mark feel free to enter sexist remarks here). Is 50 miles for me the same amount of effort as 65 miles for Matt? Or, is it simply because we race a shorter distance (5-6k vs. 8-10k)?
In case that wasn't clear enough, I'd also like to reiterate I do concur with Kangway that, even if you don't program in down weeks, it's really important to listen to your legs and not just slog through your miles because you gotta hit numbers. Taking a few days easy or off can really help juice you up for getting to the next level, mileage-wise.
you know it took me an inordinate number of wrecked seasons to abandon the 0-40-50-60-70 ramp... but at any rate, listen to your elders... down weeks are good for you.
depending on what you define to be "summer", my peak mileage is probably going to be anywhere from "0" to "15". i'd like to hit like a 300 mile riding week though, or like 20 hours before the crossover happens. dunno if that's likely though, given my current still dilapidated state. Riding is kinda different though, since I don't consider myself a "cyclist" in the racing sense, so the training is driven primarily by riding as much as I can without my knees or my feet hurting (more to ease the demons and the restlessness in my head)... vs. riding in order to ascend to a certain volume or in pursuit of sustainability.
also kangway, is Rice a D1 school? how are you not bound to track and XC? are there no meets like there are in socal?
i kind of wish i weren't bound by track and XC, like in the sense that those things weren't available to me, cuz i won't have the discipline to ignore them if they happen and i can feasibly participate.
that whole freaked out, upset all the time, anxious etc. feeling is mostly driven by the aspect of falling behind the competition, like one week of being sick can totally kill you if your rivals remain healthy. one week of missed sumemr base means a week you're behind your competitors. i personally feel anxiety at the idea that my competition is training while i am not... like how the fuck am i ever supposed to make up this gap? esp like if you fall a complete year or season behind, how the fuck are you ever supposed to make up that long term base accumulation that this other person has gained while you have been limping around in a cast? gah.
katherine,
since i was baited, i'll bite. women should run less miles because they are slower. if we both run for an hour, i will run 9 miles and you will run 7.5 miles, so a 50 mile week for you would be the same time of running as a 9/7.5*50 = 450/7.5 = 60 mile week for me. this makes the assumption that time of training is the important factor. but gradual adaptation to running occurs maily because of responses to metabolic stresses, and so equal training for the two of us would be equal amounts of time at a given effort, rather than equal amounts of distance at a given effort. the equal amounts of time at effort will give equal stresses, roughly speaking. 'equality' is a nebulous term here
similarly, if garrett's friend runs 85 miles a week, that might be equivalent to 70 miles a week for garrett.
the experience and physical makeup of the runner are obviously important variables here, too
Mark said exactly what I was going to say (that it was the time that mattered), I guess he's just faster than me.
The other thing I was going to add about lower peak miles for women was that girls have those monthly cycles to worry about. I think it's "common advice" whatever that means, that a lot of girls shouldn't attempt marathon training until after a certain age because of the impact it can have on their bodies (in terms of hindering development). I know a lot of D1 schools just put everyone on birth control when they join the team to make sure the girls still have regular cycles.
Megumi - Rice is a Division I school, although they're I think the smallest of Division One schools. I think I might be able to try to walk on the team, but more or less I'm not exactly sure that's what I want to do. I know exactly what you mean about being freaked out an anxious. That's why injuries and sickness frustrate me so much.
Mark, what are you up to in terms of a race schedule. Are you planning on running in some XC meets and also doing Carlsbad again?
i run to glorify God and I go wherever He takes me
Today I was doing my long run. It was on a technical (think top of the JPL train by the dam technical) and very rolling hilly forest trail. Needless to say I was pretty disappointed when I reach the 6.5 mile mark of a planned 11 mile run at 59 minutes. That didn't feel slower than 9 min pace I thought, even with that strange burning that happens in my calves after a day off. So I pushed hard on the slightly downhill way back. When I got back to the car after 11 miles and 1:29 minutes, my stomach felt empty but my legs felt good, so after filling up on some Gatorade, I turned around and ran another 2 miles to make 13 miles and 1:47:30 for the day. I had wondered if, being 3 weeks into a summer that very much resembles Megumi's fabled 0-40-50-60-70 summers, I should do a run over 90 minutes. I mean, 11 miles isn't much a long run. Adam Goucher did 23 mile long runs in college. But the time was a killer. I agree time is the most important. I am training for a race that is likely about 32-34 minutes long, as opposed to Matt who is training for one 25-27 minutes long. What do you think about that?
Also Kangway. Rice has a ton of walk ons. My brother is walking on next season. He is training for track but the coach wants him to run with the XC team to get in shape. He won't be racing, definitely not in the XC season and probably not in track either, but after 2 more years he might. Go for it. Also it really pisses me off how my bro tells me he went on an 80 minute run out and probably did around 12-12.5 miles, and then claimed it was very very long because he hasn't ever run over 9 miles. We all tend to exaggerate our distances ( even with the advent of gmaps pedometer ), but damn that kid is goina get owned first week of Rice XC, I don't care how many 53 second 400s he ran junior year of HS.
So there's a whole lot of discussion going on around here (which is great) and unfortunately I don't have the time to keep up on every thread.
For the moment I'll just post a quick summary of my mileage progression each summer of college, starting june-ish and ending at preseason:
Summer before frosh year:
41-40-28-51-33-60-22-21-12-38-34
Summer before soph year:
44-49-20-52-562-68-52-73-76-37-31-65-60-24
Summer before junior year:
I actually can't find the log. Probably something like 0-50-0-50-0-50. This is the summer I didn't think I'd be back at tech. It's also the season of XC I missed due to injury.
Summer before senior year:
40-43-48-52-53-60-54-44-41-57-54-60
Summer before G1 year (plagued by hamstring trouble, but followed by my best XC season ever):
19-12-25-4-0-19-27-33-37-40-35-44-0-21-40
I think the only conclusion I can glean from this is that over time I got more consistent and less focused on sheer numbers.
But let me also say this: Everyone is different. Everyone, everyone, everyone! No formula! No no no!
The single best approach (in my view) is intelligent trial and error, along with diligent record-keeping and paying very close attention to how you feel each day, each week, each season.
I'll try to transcribe the acutal logs (ex: Boulder log) as I have more time.
Also, can anyone tell me how to start a thread on the front page? I can't figure it out and I'm feeling like a moron.
Damn, that 562 mile week my soph year really killed me...
Ian - to start a new thread, look in the top right corner of your screen and it should say "New Post" if you're logged in. If you're not log in and you should see it.
Also I agree about intelligent training. Every body is different in terms of what they can physically handle and what is going to be optimal. Of course, that isn't to say we can't all run 70 mile weeks. You training background and injury history definitely factor into that almost as much as your natural ability to handle volume.
Garrett, I already know. The guy I mentioned earlier was my best friend in high school, so I know the details of being a walk-on. I mean it's cool to get free-shoes and all that, but it's really just that I'm not interested right now.
I think right now, I'm just trying to find that happy place in training again. You know, where you're training and all your injuries have stopped bothering you, so the biggest thing on your mind isn't whehter you should take a day off or not because of a sore achilles but whether you should do 10 or 15 miles tomorrow.
I've also basically decided that once I start throwing in quality, I'm going to go purely with times. That's not to say I'm going to go on the track and time everything. What I mean is all my workouts will be in terms of time, not in terms of distance. I'll do 5 on 1 off. I think working out like that, it basically just lets you really, really feel out the effort, and not worry about times. I've sort of found that, when you're not worry about times and focusing more on effort, then every workout tuns out to be a pretty good workout.
So I guess what I'm saying is, right now, I'm trying to focus on getting faster without know how fast I'm getting. I just want to go out there, build a strong base, start throwing in some workouts, and just get faster. I don't want to worry about "what could I run 5k in right now?" I want to run and get faster, feel stronger, and then go out there and be pleasantly surprised.
I guess in that sense maybe I should just start logging times during runs instead of miles. Then again, I hate the watch tan.
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