Some of you may be getting this, but right now there's a debate going on via the cyclists@caltech mailing list about the Rosebowl ride possibly getting shut down. Many of us have either done the RB ride, witnessed the RB ride, ride at the RB a lot, or even crashed at the RB ride.
Should it be shut down?
If not, how could it be made safer?
Ideas off the top of my head include:
- separate the pedestrians and cyclists/others with a curb or fence
- have a rider number limit on the ride, or
- separate out beginners somehow (2 rides -- one for beginners, one for advanced?)
- close the area off to cars for some/all of the time (who needs to drive all the way around in 2 directions, anyways?)
My ideal version of the RB has, from the inside out, a dirt or woodchip pedestrian/runner/dog track around the innermost area, followed by a curb, then a slow bikes/rollerblade/wheelchair lane, and then a big bike lane. There is one lane of one-way automobile traffic on the outermost portion.
That would be sweet. You could run on the dirt! It would be safer for everyone! Too bad the easiest decision is just to close it off.
Official Poll Results:
Most of us are not injured and running. Let us rejoice!
We think that Bolt and El Guerrouj are dirty and that Big Bekele is clean. We're not sure about Seb or Geb.
Kara Goucher wears the pants. Adam carries the baby sling.
If our coach had a lesser opinion of our athletic potential than ourselves, a slim plurality of us would want him or her to let us know.
When given the choice between being the world's best and dominating runner in one distance event or ten billion dollars, we would pick the former...barely.
If we could be any Caltech runner besides ourselves, we would most likely be Ian. Garrett, Katherine, Mark, and Rosen come in second.
Four out of four voters agree: everybody should update his or her log more often. I mean, seriously.
If we could be a world-class runner in one distance event, we'd pick either the 800m, the 1500/Mile, or the Marathon. The 10000m, steeplechase, and ultra-marathon come in second.
The cross-country course at Bush's Pasture Park in Salem, Oregon is more enjoyable than those in Chino, La Mirada, and even Riverside. It's also more enjoyable than "Your Mom," but that's not a legitimate cross-country course.
Markkimarkkonnen and Billy 'Reclaimed Water' Zdon are even money for being the craziest Caltech runners.
"Ribwich" is the most under-utilized nickname for a really skinny runner. "Pork Chop" and "Bones" are pretty good, too.
Alan Webb was more disappointing than Adam Goucher at the 2008 US Olympic Trials.
The 1500/Mile is the most fun distance event to race.
Out of the entire North Field Track Club, Markimarkkonnen is the most likely to fail a gender test.
Katherine should run the 1500 - 5000 double at conferences.
Katherine should focus on the 5000m this track season, based on the Goldilocks Principle (it's juuuuust right.)
Sara Hall, or Both Ryan and Sara At The Same Time
In the past four weeks:
77% of us have consumed alcohol, 77% have used Gatorade, 55% have used Endurox R4, 44% have shaved our legs, have smoked pot and 11% have used EPO.
Tyson Gay is the best 100m runner in the world (right now).
Matt Tegenkamp is the runner most likely to break Bob Kennedy's American 5000m record.
This is a pipe. Also it is Ian's Bones (see right). I
wonder if Ian's hollow bones means he can fly like a bird.
Highway 39 (or some variation) is a totally sweet ride and is the favorite of many.
Alan Webb will get First Place (GOLD, BABY!) at the 2007 Osaka World Athletics Championship!!! (If we are wrong we suck).
This Nerd-Jock Blog is Amazingly Awesome, the best idea ever, but it borders dangerously as a huge waste of time, which is why we're on it, voting.
The Last Stage of the Tour de France is a fine tradition honoring the great acomplishments of the previous weeks' racing.
Most anticipated log: Ian's Exercise Log
We think that Bolt and El Guerrouj are dirty and that Big Bekele is clean. We're not sure about Seb or Geb.
Kara Goucher wears the pants. Adam carries the baby sling.
If our coach had a lesser opinion of our athletic potential than ourselves, a slim plurality of us would want him or her to let us know.
When given the choice between being the world's best and dominating runner in one distance event or ten billion dollars, we would pick the former...barely.
If we could be any Caltech runner besides ourselves, we would most likely be Ian. Garrett, Katherine, Mark, and Rosen come in second.
Four out of four voters agree: everybody should update his or her log more often. I mean, seriously.
If we could be a world-class runner in one distance event, we'd pick either the 800m, the 1500/Mile, or the Marathon. The 10000m, steeplechase, and ultra-marathon come in second.
The cross-country course at Bush's Pasture Park in Salem, Oregon is more enjoyable than those in Chino, La Mirada, and even Riverside. It's also more enjoyable than "Your Mom," but that's not a legitimate cross-country course.
Markkimarkkonnen and Billy 'Reclaimed Water' Zdon are even money for being the craziest Caltech runners.
"Ribwich" is the most under-utilized nickname for a really skinny runner. "Pork Chop" and "Bones" are pretty good, too.
Alan Webb was more disappointing than Adam Goucher at the 2008 US Olympic Trials.
The 1500/Mile is the most fun distance event to race.
Out of the entire North Field Track Club, Markimarkkonnen is the most likely to fail a gender test.
Katherine should run the 1500 - 5000 double at conferences.
Katherine should focus on the 5000m this track season, based on the Goldilocks Principle (it's juuuuust right.)
Sara Hall, or Both Ryan and Sara At The Same Time
In the past four weeks:
77% of us have consumed alcohol, 77% have used Gatorade, 55% have used Endurox R4, 44% have shaved our legs, have smoked pot and 11% have used EPO.
Tyson Gay is the best 100m runner in the world (right now).
Matt Tegenkamp is the runner most likely to break Bob Kennedy's American 5000m record.
This is a pipe. Also it is Ian's Bones (see right). I
wonder if Ian's hollow bones means he can fly like a bird.Highway 39 (or some variation) is a totally sweet ride and is the favorite of many.
Alan Webb will get First Place (GOLD, BABY!) at the 2007 Osaka World Athletics Championship!!! (If we are wrong we suck).
This Nerd-Jock Blog is Amazingly Awesome, the best idea ever, but it borders dangerously as a huge waste of time, which is why we're on it, voting.
The Last Stage of the Tour de France is a fine tradition honoring the great acomplishments of the previous weeks' racing.
Most anticipated log: Ian's Exercise Log
19 comments:
I think it should stay. Even though I crashed, there's no better way to learn the real thing than to be part of the real thing. I guess there are dangers with beginners in the main pack, but there are always going to be dangers anywhere. In any Cat 5, Group C/D race, it's all beginners. I think a pack of all beginners might be even more dangerous than a pack of regular riders plus a few beginners.
I don't think there's any great way to make it safer. The only way would be to close the Rose Bowl to Traffic from 5:45 to 7:15, which would be totally, totally sweet. Also no pedestrians at that time.
Even though I crashed, I have good memories of it. I definitely want to do it again.
Yeah, good point about the "all beginners" thing. I guess I was thinking that it would encourage people to not ride AS close or AS recklessly, but I think people would still end up jockeying. So it would be worse.
What's their problem with closing it to cars? I mean, who the heck REALLY needs to get down there? And why the both ways? It's a circle, so it seems like they could have it be one-way no problem.
I think there is also the issue that people need to drive on those roads to park their car so they can unload their bikes. I get the impression that some people come a fair distance to do the Rose Bowl ride, long enough that they would be pretty worn out (or don't have time) to just ride over.
I don't see why so many pedestrians like the Rose Bowl anyway, it's such a hard, hard road.
oh, gah, gah, gah!!!!
the RB situation makes me want to scream at the top of my lungs... its SO infuriating...
for those of you who haven't been there recently... there is currently an inner lane for pedestrians, say 6 feet wide, then there's like a 3 foot wide "neutral" space, which is supposedly a cushion between pedestrians and cyclists. Then, there is a line of those obnoxious traffic dots (those raised white thingies that can totally throw you off your bike if you hit one without expecting it) and finally, there's a bit of road left that fits maybe 1 car and 1-2 cyclists and then the yellow center divider.
The problem is that both the inner lane AND the neutral space is occupied by runners and power walkers... so then realllllly slow walkers and people with strollers and crap basically walk in the cyclists' space between the cars and the neutral space. They often walk like 3 people wide too so its like, a cyclist would just have to be in the car lane, with NOWHERE to pull over to if a car comes up behind you.
its REALLY infuriating... like wtf am *iii* supposed to do, just get hit by cars? why do people think its okay to walk like 3 people wide all the way into the traffic lane? AND there are also sometimes small children just running loose in the car/bike lane. ARGHHHHH.... every time i go there, i feel like taking a bull horn and yelling "NEUTRAL!!! GET OUT!!!" into the crowd as i barrel down the the street like RIGHT next to the neutral zone.
i feel like this makes the RB ride even more dangerous cuz you've constricted the width of the ride severely, so like people bunch up suddenly on the north/southbound sides of the RB...
ALSO, to address kangway's point, there is a PERFECTLY nice and beautiful dirt and woodchips trail that runs around the RB on the other side of the street. i run there EVERY time i go to the RB on foot... as does anyone else who appears to be a serious runner.
gah. /end rant>
non-serious athletes who take up precious training facilities from real athletes are like my PET PEEVE... gosh, so annoying! (sorry, that was an snobby and unkind thing to say, but in case it has eluded you, i AM an athletic elitist)
This sounds kind of callous, but I think the obstacles and slow bike riders are all part of the experience. In a race you have to be very attentive to everything going on around you so that you don't turn a corner and the pack is gone before you know it, or someone has broke away. Point is, looking out for slow pedestrians and cyclists, thinking ahead, and navigating cars helps to heighten your powers of awareness inside a pack. The two times I have done the RB ride were both thrilling and very empowering.
The very first time I did it, a car turned onto the road and was trying to turn into the parking lot K but was for some reason stopped. Then the RB ride came by, and the car was enveloped like a swarm, causing cyclist to split inside and outside. I went inside and narrowly missing a ped by 6 inches at 30 mph was pretty freaky, but i would be lying if I didn't find it strangely exhilerating. Anyways, a ped getting in the way of RB is like walking out onto the 210. Just don't be a dumbass. Slower cyclists stay to the right like slow drivers on the freeway. I think that, although it has its incidents, its should stay, and people should be more vigilant. Signs would be good.
I went to the Pasadena city council meeting last night to hear the discussion of the issue. I kind of hoped there would be a time when I'd get a chance to say something, but they only allowed 4 speakers from the cyclists' side, and those four had been picked before the meeting started. They were some of the local cycling icons (although I've never actually talked to hem) who have done the ride for 10-30 years and have state and national championships to their credit. They gave some heartfelt arguments about the need for race preparation in the form of fast group riding, something that doesn't happen except for at a few select locations in the socal area. I don't think the council was at all sympathetic to their need for a training venue. I wish I could have gotten up and said, "Hey, in addition to being indispensable training for some cyclists, the RB ride is also really really fun and unique. It's a positive part of my Pasadena experience, and taking it away makes Pasadena a less attractive place to live, at least for me."
The main issue at stake was the safety of people using the Rose Bowl for walking or mellow riding. They don't actually care if the cyclists hurt themselves, as long as they aren't hitting, or even scaring, the pedestrians and slower cyclists. They said there have been lots of complaints from pedestrians who feel intimidated by the presence of the pack, enough to not want to use the Bowl for walking/jogging on the ride nights (and are pissed about that, not resigned to it).
There is no way they're going to shut down the RB loop to cars anytime soon, even for 90 minutes twice a week. There would be some financial cost to doing that, in addition to the fact that lots of people drive to the Bowl so they can walk/jog/bike.
I think the easiest solution which fixes the pedestrian safety issue is to build a little physical barrier (more than just painted lines) dividing the pedestrian lane from the bike/car lane. It could be something as simple as a little 6" curb. Pedestrians definitely bleed out over the designated area, but I think if it had a curb which reminded them of the normal sidewalk/street division, they would be more likely to stick to the inside, or at least venture outside knowing they were taking the risk of being in the street. A curb would also keep cyclists from venturing into the inside lane.
Another thing which was mentioned is that pedestrians are often 'startled' and scared by the pack when it rides up behind them. But there actually is a designated direction to the pedestrian lane, which is CCW and therefore counter to the adjacent traffic lane. I think at any given time there are people walking and running (and rollerblading with their ipods) in both directions, with more than half usually going clockwise instead of CCW. Anyone going CCW would see the pack coming and therefore not be 'startled' by it. I don't think the police have any intention of rigidly enforcing the walking direction rule. But if they actually installed explanatory signs it would help. I don't think there's even any signage saying what the new painted 'buffer zone' is actually for. empty space? runners? slow bikers?
One last thing that came up was that the council said they had a lot of trouble finding anyone "in charge" of the ride. And honestly, that's because there is nobody in charge. The ride itself is bigger and lasts longer than the involvement of any one person. This seemed to baffle the council. In response, the few cyclists who had a chance to speak said that they were working on setting up some sort of self-policing system, in which there were designated ride marshals (with special jerseys), some of the more well-known and respected local cyclists, who could address the riders before each RB ride, tell them the rules, and let them know if there were any particular issues to pay attention to that day. The thing is, there are always going to be some people like me who are running late and rush to catch the first or second (or third) lap. I don't know if there's a way to actually enforce any rules, although bike racing does rely on a strong sense of etiquette most of the time.
In the end it sounded like none of the public input really mattered. The council resolved to draft new legislation banning riding more than 2 riders abreast. The ordinance will be read at the next council meeting, and then it has to be read at a second consecutive meeting before it is adopted. Then there is a 30 day delay before it actually becomes a law.
So the RB ride has 6 weeks to live. I definitely plan to get my jollies in while I still can.
New legislation banning no more than 2 riders abreast... can't we bypass that by a simple double-paceline?
GLAGAHGLAHGLHAGLHAGA.....
that is really sad. you know, will says that maybe this is an issue where the local cycling community really needs to take more of a united front on the issue. like if X many old, fat, easily startled people with lots of money complain to the city council, and the cyclists don't provide an organized movement against this, then the old, fat people will win.
i've never done the RB ride, and personally, i avoid the RB on tuesdays and thursdays, in deference to the training needs of the more experienced cyclists... so its not that i have a personal attachment to the institution, i just feel really cantakerous on principle...
i can kind of see that the council wouldn't be sympathetic to the need to practice criterium style riding... but i feel like the issue at hand is much bigger than that. its about equal rights. this is a public place, and if someone has the right to walk in the middle of the road at 0.5 mph with 5 of their friends, then i feel like someone should ALSO have the right to use the space for a rose bowl ride.
if there's a 2-wide cyclist rule, maybe there should be a 3-wide walker rule. like, WTF? why should only ONE demographic be subject to rules and regulations? ESPECIALLY since there is the walking lane and the neutral lane, i feel like if you're outside of that, and you get hit by a bike, its your own goddamn fault.
gah, like how is being "startled" a reason for getting rid of the rosebowl ride? its like, if that startles you, then perhaps you should just stay indoors in a semi dark room all day long, you know, to avoid other stimula that may be upsetting your constitution... like fluorescent lights and doors slamming. seriously, what is WRONG with people?
HAHAHAHA!!!!
Oh man Megumi I just snorted my tea so hard I almost threw up.
I don't know why Pasadena insists on being the Man. These guys need to chill out and get with the program. Bikes are so awesome I nearly wet myself whenever I see them or think about them. What is better for the civic image of Pasadena: delicious, spandex-clad muscley people or some wanker with a stroller?
Zane wrote a letter to our city council rep Sid Tyler.
I'm working on a letter as well.
Just finished my letter to Sid Tyler.
If it bears an uncanny resemblance to Zane's, that's because we talked about it over breakfast this morning for about 45 minutes.
"You yourself mentioned walking at the Rose Bowl and being unpleasantly startled by a pack of fast-moving cyclists. However, if you had been walking in the legally-required direction you would have seen the group coming and not been taken by surprise."
Take that, bitch!
I only rode in the RB ride 3 times, but I still feel like this is a pretty short-sided attack on cycling in Pasadena.
also I think we should copy and paste megumi's rants and send them, as a letter, to sit tyler
My councilmember's name is Gordo, and in the picture he's actually fat. Isn't that sad? My letter to him was also similar to Ian's and Zane's, hopefully they don't think we all know each other or anything.
If nothing gets done due to our protests, can we organize a sit-in every tuesday and thursday where we (along with hopefully hundred of other bikers) sit across the traffic lanes of the Rose Bowl with our bikes from 6:00-7:00??? or just for days straight till they give up.
I think if there were an actual sit-in, they would just arrest everyone.
The thing with civil disobedience is that it works best if you're following the letter of the law (if not the spirit) and still being a total pain in the ass.
Ideally, I think the thing to do would be to ride in numerous pairs around the bowl at 10-15mph, in the middle of the traffic lane, all day long before a football game when 50,000 people are trying to drive in and park. According to CA traffic law, bikes are permitted full use of a lane, as long as they are going "near traffic speed". I think 10-15mph is close enough, and it would generate a massive traffic snarl if you had enough riders. You could even do it as singles, not pairs, but in pairs at least you would have someone to talk to.
I did the RB ride yesterday, and was even there early enough to do a couple easy laps with Ruby before the start. I took a good look at the pedestrian lane as we went around, and seriously there just isn't enough space for everyone. Runners (who I fully support) have to move as far as 8-10 feet outside the buffer zone, to stay away from all the walkers in the pedestrian zone and the strollers, dog-walkers and other people in buffer zone, which is supposed to remain clear. There were even a few rollerbladers, one who was all dressed in some kind of team spandex, going 15mph outside the runners. Plus, 75% of the people are going ccw, which is the "wrong" direction (not that I've ever gone the "right" direction more than once or twice). So seriously, even before the pack forms there's not enough space for two cyclists side-by-side plus cars.
Too many people, too little space, too few places in LA to walk/run/bike without cross traffic. I say fuck the cars, they have plenty of other roads.
YEAH!
Suck on my junk, cars.
This is sad situation. It seems that some taxpayers are able to have a greater voice than others. I have been startled at least 20 times by cars driving up behind me and having the occupants throw something at me. I have taken down the license plate and reported the incidents on three occassions. You know what happened - nothing. Here the threshold is 14? I bet I have been startled by cars at least 500 times - so what, that is the nature of living in a community. This is a clear indication of our culture's apathy and disdain for competitive cycling.
I say we ride two by two bull horns in hand and let the burgeoning fascist regime known as Pasadena know exactly what is on our minds.
Oh my god it worked.
I just got back from the city council meeting. They opted to table the anti-peloton ordinance, in favor of coming up with a "bigger plan" over the next 6 months for making the whole arroyo/Rose Bowl area more safe and accessible in general.
Seriously, I'm amazed. After the first meeting I had pretty low expectations. Maybe they actually read those letters.
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