I've always done upper body lifting. In fact, I started lifting maybe two or three months before I started running (three or four months before I turned 13). The weight room was pretty much open year round for the track and cross country teams, and it's where I first met my coach the summer before I started high school. In any case, my early experiences with lifting were pretty ridiculous. My friend and I only did upper body and abs, no legs at all. In some sense, since I was still growing, doing heavy squats or anything like that probably wasn't a great idea, but I didn't start doing legs until about sophomore year of high school. After that I pretty much did total-body lifting, when I decided that all runners must be totally skinny and started running 75 miles a week leading to disastrous results (summer/fall of 2005). During that time period, my upper body shrank, but it never became totally skinny like some runners you might know. So pretty much with the exception of that period, I've been a regular lifter (3x a week during track, 2x a week during cross country, 3x a week during summer, with a couple of weeks downtime in the year).
Did I think lifting up top helped me? We'd always lift in the mornings, and there were certainly many days were we'd have a hard workout in the afternoon on days we'd lift. I definitely remember days running 400-800m repeats where I thought "Man, I really shouldn't have done all that bench," because my arms would get so tired. In another sense however, I always felt that having good upper body strength was really, really crucial during track season, especially in the 400/800m, since the last 200m of those races really comes down to holding your form. During cross country, I'm not totally convinced it helped. There are many times when I would be running and I could feel my arms "swimming." It's as if my arms were so tight I felt that they couldn't flow naturally. I think those were the times when I really felt "too big." However, during that '05 season where I didn't lift, I definitely noticed that as races went on, my arm swing totally fell apart. I can't say this was directly related to lifting, but it certainly could be.
In any case, these previous experiences have now led me to believe that a limited amount of upper-body strength is beneficial towards running. Basically, having a bit of mass in the upper body should help you maintain form in fatigued states, and therefore help you maintain efficiency. I remember Lydiard, despite not having his athletes do much lifting at all, always had his athletes do pull-ups to strengthen the latissimus dorsi to help maintain form in that last 100m. I think that if runners just focus on doing the big, multi-muscle group lifts (bench, rows, pull ups), then that should provide enough strength to maintain good form when running. I don't think there needs to be worry about getting "too big," because as long as you're putting in enough miles, your body will sort of naturally optimize itself (in terms of maintaining the muscle that's sort of good and getting rid of what isn't good). I mean, let's take a few examples on several levels:
1) Alan Webb: He used to be HUGE in high school. Now he's slimmed down but by all standards is still beastly. He can not only spit out a 1:45 800, but debuted a 27:34 10k last year. Pretty good range for a "huge" guy.
2) Ian "Whoa! You're more jacked than me!" Shapiro: Even Ryan Hall admitted, Ian's got guns. I recall he once told me about how he packed on most of his muscle during his injury when he could only really just lift weights. Still, before his piriformis cut his season short, he put out a 32:23 10k, and also ran a road race 5k pr a few months earlier. Also ran 1:15:18 for a half marathon while sick.
3) Mark Eichenlaub: Mark is fit. He's also got some good mass on his arms. Check out those guns. He holds his form pretty well. Ran 15:28 for a 5k this season. Also 1:13 half. Enough said.
You could probably just argue that I chose three examples of people who happened to have good upper body strength and happened to hold their form pretty good. I accept that as a totally valid challenge because that's pretty much what I did. In fact, Ian ran his 5k PR in his pre-"huge" state. Comparing pictures from his senior year to now he's definitely more cut now. But the point is, they're all running pretty well now, and you don't have to look like Paul Tergat to run fast. In fact, having guns helps you get girls (forget the fact that Paul Tergat has been married for over a decade).
Also, if anyone wants to argue that good form is not necessary for running and therefore you don't need to lift upper body, you can use this guy as your free counterexample.
14 comments:
Mark is so hot right now.
(1) Ian: did you feel like your form changed after you got huge guns? Did it feel easier or worse?
(2) Is it *really* worth the extra weight? I think that for some people that get big muscles in their upper body {Ian, Kangway} versus people that get scrappier/stringier/wiry {Ryan, Mark, many females} you might see a negative effect.
I've started to notice my upper back is getting buffer, I don't know if it's from PT, or riding my bike, or running, but it's noticable. Sometimes after long runs my back is sore, I think it's from all the arm swinging/tightness that happens in my upper body.
They say runners like Prefontaine and Adam Goucher had tendencies to put on upper body mass very, very easily.
I remember in Running with the Buffaloes Mark Wetmore tells Gouch that he's fat, and Gouch gets all offended but realizes that he's right so he gets skinny. Still, even after he got skinny he still did a couple sets of push ups pretty regularly.
One more thing: who's that cracker with his tongue hanging out? Classic.
The same cracker that is running in the picture on the left of the front page: Emil Zatopek.
Most notably, at the 1952 Helsinki Olympics he won the 5k, won the 10k, then decided to run the marathon (his first ever).
The story is that Zatopek approached the favorite, Jim Peters, before the race and asked if he could run with him since he'd never done one before. Peters, a little irked, said sure. They were running and somewhere in the race, Zatopek, feeling a bit of strain, asked "Isn't this pace a little fast?"
Peters, again irked, replied "No. It's too slow." Zatopek said, "Okay!" and took off.
Then he won.
So he's the winner of the triple crown: 5k, 10k, Marathon, all in one olympics.
This legendary man had atrocious form, yet he used to do ridiculous feats like run 40x200, 20x400, 40x200, daily, or run on top of some clothes in the bathtub for three hours, or place catch with a javelin (with his wife, an olympic javelin thrower!)
The point is, his form was ugly as all hell.
Of course I know who Zatopek is. I just didn't recognize him :). I love his quote where someone asked about his horrible expressions and he said something to the effect of "it's not ballet, you know!". Maybe Ian can give us the real quote, it was in the running logs he made us frosh year.
Yeah he looks really goofy in that picture. He had a lot of good quotes I liked.
I like this one:
"When a person trains once, nothing happens. When a person forces himself to do a thing a hundred or a thousand times, then he certainly has developed in more ways than physical. Is it raining? That doesn't matter. Am I tired? That doesn't matter, either. Then willpower will be no problem."
I think the one you're thinking of is, "It's not gymnastics or ice skating you know."
Check out the story on Zatopek in Michael Sandrock's Running with the Legends. You can get it from the .
preview on Amazon. Just search for "zatopek"
"I understood after the sixth kilometer that I was strong, because [race announcer] says, 'After six kilometers, Zatopek is running in better time than Viljo Heino for world record.' Oh really? And the young people yell, 'We want world record!' and I started to run, and I ran world record."
"And you see, gold medal, silver medal, bronze medal; for me, potato. What to do? But to give up? Never! Nah, no no. I must run!"
"I value those friendships. Maybe it is also nice, the friendship I have with our neighbor, Antony, when we go out to fish. But that is only one kind of friendship, because we have the chance to see each other every day. But in such an Olympic struggle, ah, it is not so easy. With all their energy, everybody tries to do their best. This struggle, it stays very deep in your mind. And it produces great respect among adversaries. It is this quality I esteem."
oh, i want mark's ab workout... unless its one of those like "actual results may vary" things under the picture of like a fabulous outcome.
i think everyone can benefit from core/upper body competence... but more like low intensity high reps sort of stuff. i stopped lifting 3 years ago and basically i'm so weak now that my shoulders cramp on runs longer than 70 minutes. its sad... and that shouldn't happen.
however, the optimal amount of upper body bulk, i think is highly dependent on your race distance. take nick symmonds, he's like a beast by distance runner standards, but in a way i think it works to his advantage over 800/1500 m. he's still a cut above will leer, who i think has more of the physique of a 5K guy.
but like, paul tergat runs marathons, there's no way he could survive with that kind of bulk. you really don't see big guys at that distance... but by comparison, even 5K/10K is short, so you see a mixed bag there... some more built types can excel as well as the wiry, emaciated ones.
i disagree that you need guns to get the ladies though... gaunt is beautiful (quenton cassidy's shirt, chapter 3)
I remember liking the new muscle at the start of track season my jr year, since somehow I found I had a good kick despite still being held to 15-20mi/wk by achilles trouble.
But now I just feel tight and heavy.
I remember at some point back in my competitive racing days coming up with the following analogy about muscle and running: When you go to the gym and hit the weights, you are mining ore. The more ore, the more muscle you have to work with. But that muscle doesn't have any function or context, it just sits there. It doesn't become steel until it's forged by many miles of running. Then it finally gains some awareness of what it's really supposed be for.
Right now I am waaaay too bulky given my current level of fitness. Maybe if I were an elite middle distance runner it would have some use. But now I don't think I even get to the pace where some upper body muscle would help. It's hard enough just to drag the rest of my body around the north field for 45 minutes without having to shoe-horn around some big useless titties.
I think all my weight room activity for the next 6 months will be focused on rehab for the shoulder and the occasional core routine.
I'll leave you with a quote by the coach of my HS friend Tony when he was running at Grinnell:
"Back in my day, when I was vaulting, we used to do sets of 25 pullups and dips all day long. Then we'd add on some sets of the decline press. That didn't do anything for our vaulting, but gave us the big titties that drove girls wild."
Off on my ride...
Megumi, I agree with your comment about race distances and upper body strength, but I disagree with the "gaunt is beautiful." That's what skinny guys like to tell themselves. I posted a new picture under Emil Zatopek. I hope you like it.
Ian, that quote from your friend is awesome.
Also, I totally get your muscle thing about sort of gaining awareness for its pupose. The way I see it is, you build up muscle in the weight room, then you go out and run, and when you put in the miles, the muscle that's good become STEEL and any extra muscle you accidentally gained that isn't use is just consumed by the furance. That's how I always sort of saw it.
It's sort of interesting because I guess, looking back, the bigger and heavier I got, the worse my distance races got. It was also weird because the addition of mass didn't really help my speed, but helped in races where it was about holding form in the end 400/800.
I mean, sophomore year I was 132 pounds, and after a tempo workout once ran a 300-200-100 in 40s, 26s, 13s. Senior year, after a similar workout, I hit 41s, 26s, 13s. The difference was that after the sophomore year workout, my friend came up to me (he was on sprints) and was like "kangway, your form looked so textbook. I've never seen you fly like that." Then my coach came up and was like "yeah, I've never seen you so smooth before." I think once I started adding bulk, I lose some smoothness in my form.
But I mean, my speed was good there, and my speed was about the same senior year. But the difference was that sophomore year I could run 55.7 for the 400, and 2:05.3 for the 800, compared to 54 and 2:03.7.
So having the upper body mass didn't really seem to help the speed, and my times in distances 1600+ were terrible junior and senior years, but it seemed to help in those races where you get that burn, you know the last 100 of a 400, the last 200 of an 800.
I guess that summer of 2005 I stopped lifting, and I weighed about 140 lb's, and was in pretty good shape before I overtrained.
Basically, what I think all of this amounts to is that adding upper body mass is a good thing if you're a 400/800 runner, but you shouldn't overdo it if you're running longer than that.
DO YOU HAVE ANY GREY POUPON?
Eeew that is gross.
Jesus, look at that tricep! HE HAS NO BODY FAT. Then again, I have seen photos of his ripped thighs before.
Also, he's sort of pasty. And you can see his Iliotibial Bands. That's sort of gross. Also there's some veiny growth along his IT bands. That's ridiculous.
I want to be him.
Post a Comment