I admit I really am only posting this to try to spark the most argumentative post on this nerd blog yet, but seriously does it matter?
I used to think that the only girls for me were runner girls. I mean, admit it. You go to a track or cross country meet and you suddenly are surrounded by crowds of fit, fast girls with long legs. Now, being at a track meet, and everyone being dressed to run, you instantly know you have something in common to talk about and relate to! Awesome! But seriously, who better to understand the obsession and compulsion that is running than, well, other runners.
Anyhow, since then, I've decided that it doesn't necessarily matter. Basically there are pros and cons, here are a few:
Pros
Dating Runners
1) They understand running and will put up with it.
2) You presumably can talk about training all you want without getting blank stares.
3) They are hot. If their bodies aren't amazingly sexy already, then your speed goggles will make them hot (seriously, Will Leer probably wouldn't be attractive, but even the dudes love him with their speed goggles on).
4) You can take ice baths together.
5) You can run together.
6) They will let you use running as a valid excuse to get out of important events (maybe).
7) You can pick them up by talking about Alan Webb and Shalane Flanagan.
Dating Non-Runners
1) You'll have someone without this big running interest and their interests can complement yours
2) They can be hot in non-runner competitive runner ways ( they don't have to look that skinny).
3) They will automatically love your body and you will be rewarded.
4) They will automatically respect your dedication.
5) You can go into the hot tub together without both of you deciding that it will actually be detrimental to your recovery due to the fact that you have both just run intervals half an hour earlier.
6) You'll learn how to not talk about running all the time.
7) You won't have someone trying to impose flawed training philosophies on you.
Cons
Dating Runners
1) She might be faster than you.
2) If you don't run fast, their eyes might wander towards your most hated rival.
3) Someone will probably be more knowledgeable and experienced, and you might hate it.
4) They might try to take over your running.
5) You can never exaggerate how long running events are going to take because they'll probably know (Oh yeah, I can't go to your sister's wedding because big track meets are always monday through wednesday).
6) They might criticize your beautiful form.
7) You aren't allowed to get rough because you might ruin their season.
8) This list is sort of ridiculous.
Dating Non-Runners
1) You can't talk about training all the time
2) You can't talk about racing all the time
3) You can't talk about Arthur Lydiard all the time
4) You'll tell them about Jack Daniels and she'll say "Sure, got any coke with that?"
5) Through your running, you can't touch other people, and affect their lives in a positive way (see photo).
6) I'm tired and going to bed.
The end.
10 comments:
I definitely think it does make a big difference. In the immortal words of Belle and Sebastian, "Stars of Track and Field are beautiful people." Its true. Then again there are a number of problems:
1) "They might be faster than you"
For me, chances are this is true.
2) Being a skinny fit runner girl is definitely more desirable than being a skinny runner guy. Trust me on this one.
3) You can't impress runner chicks with the whole " I did 10 miles today." To girls who aren't runners, running 1 mile is tough. It makes you seem hardcore. But to runner girls, thats just like, eh.
4) The whole trying to be your coach. I could see that being a problem, especially if the girl is faster than you,...or Megumi.
5) I go to Caltech, do I really have a choice..? I guess it'll have to wait.
Also is that picture of Galen Rupp?
I think that's Ryan and Sara Hall (formerly Sara Bei, also a pro runner out of Stanford.)
if you are a runner, and if you are dating another runner, and if the person you are dating is a faster runner than you are, then you are a woman. this is by definition.
if you have a penis and they have a vagina, you are still a woman. if you both have vaginas, then you are a woman who likes other women and that is hot, unless my aunt started running, and her girlfriend started running faster. because my aunt is a woman who likes other women but she is not hot, which is kind of hard to wrap your head around, but actually true. if you both have a penis you are a woman who has a penis and dates a gay man who runs faster than you do.
example 1: garrett is a man, but if he started dating ari lambie he would become a woman, and ari lambie would become a hot lesbian, rather than a not-disgusting fast chick as she is now.
example 2: ian is a man, but occasionally becomes a woman for short periods while severely crippled, then changes back again when he regains running ability.
example 3: katherine and megumi are both women, but if they started dating each other they would become the ultimate love goddesses of the universe.
example 4: ekua has no recourse but to be a lesbian, because if she dates a woman she will be a lesbian (unless she is a straight woman dating a woman, but we preclude that possibility), and if she dates a man, she will be too fast for him, and he will become a woman, and ekua will be a lesbian again, or a woman who dates another woman where the other woman has a penis.
bisexuality is left as an exercise to the reader.
hem, hem.
kangway, your lists of pros and cons are hilarious! nevertheless, i feel like this matter is not simply about the pros and cons and how the balance of it all shakes out.
lets start here: contrary to popular belief, i DO get that in some senses its more comfortable or fun or easy to date someone who's not a runner. i DO get that 99% of the population find people who don't have that emaciated elite athlete look (guys or girls) as being aesthetically more pleasing. exhibit A--the (in)famous story about how there was once a time when Ian looked really, really, good... when he came back from an extended period of not training and had filled out some.
but it is not the way of the endurance athlete to choose that which is easy and pleasing. to me, at least, it is of utmost importance that the person i date can understand who i am and where my heart is. everything that i am as a human being is contained within who i am as a runner. ofcourse, i have dreams and ambitions and passions unrelated to running too, but everything is driven by the same fundamental essence of who i am that drives my running. if you can't understand me as a runner, you stand no chance of understanding me as a human being.
in my opinion, a true runner seeks the solitary path of their own trial of miles, rather than a distraction from such. for those of you who have read the book, quenton cassidy gave up the love of his life for this... cuz she couldn't understand. she couldn't understand what drove him, and the necessity that he do this alone, that it "doesn't dilute" "there are no compromises" that there's something that's a priority over her.
it is rare outside the realm of serious endurance athletes, the ability to understand all of this, and then it is rare outside the specificity of the distance runner to understand the particular neuroses of runners (vs... cyclists, swimmer, triathletes, etc.)
it is a rare significant other who can challenge and encourage without imposing, who can comfort without distracting, who can motivate without arousing jealousy or inadequacy. i don't seek someone who will admire me, i don't seek someone who will cave to my opinions, i don't seek someone who will change me. if such a person like this exists who is NOT a runner, then i would consider dating them, but as yet, people like this are so rare, even within the running community, that i generally feel skeptical that a non runner could meet these requirements.
to address kiesz' comment that the only beauty worth finding is on the inside, to this i say, that gaunt look of the exhaustion of months of 100 mile weeks, of training 40-50 hours a week, that is an external reflection of inner beauty, and hence worth so much more than anything aesthetic in an artistic/romantic way. you know that someone who looks that way has at some point trodden the distant place of the trial of miles, has been driven by the same ambition, the same dedication. to me, the beauty of an aesthetically pleasing build or a more filled out, less gaunt looking face pales in comparison to that look that conveys an understanding of my deepest ambitions, motivations and desires.
what i'm trying to say, is that the meaning of things is what's important in the distinction of dating a runner vs. a non runner, rather than what aspects of the relationship are preferable.
believe me, a hardcore running-only runner, dating a triathlete stirred up the same sort of emotional conflict as the prospect of dating a yankees fan. but the fact that Peter chose a career in that over a career as a runner, despite the fact that he likes cycling and swimming substantially less, shows me that he would understand my desire to be nothing less than the very very best... that having a shot at being an olympian held more of an allure than being one of many, many 28-29 minute 10K guys. surprisingly, i really, really, get that...
everything i go through as a runner, everything i feel, every loss, every victory, when its hard when its lonely, i KNOW beyond a doubt that, though separated by time and space and ability, my boyfriend has been there too... that the ghost of his experience walks beside me, walks ahead of me, though my training journey is alone. that support, to me is the most powerful and meaningful thing that a significant other could provide to me the runner...
ergo, you should date a runner. or at least, some sort of serious athlete. the end.
oh, i almost forgot... grrrr, Sara Bei... *shakes fist*
Roughly translated:
Peter is fuckin hot as shit
Ryan Hall is pretty hot too for that matter. I'm used to seeing pics of him running, i.e. not smiling, so the face threw me off a bit. But those calves man, I knew I'd seen them before.
But yeah Megumi very, uh...long response. Actually I liked it. It gives me faith that at least somewhere among those 13 mile runs, the days when you are exhausted and over trained and then do mile repeats, the heat and sweat, everyone gains a certain respect for that. I occasionally worry that as a slower runner, people don't look at me as one who has gone through said 'trial of miles.' I know I personally am guilty of thinking guys slower than myself don't try as hard, it's just part of one's innate rule of commonality: all people have the same talent and success is denoted by hard work. Running as a sport especially brings one into the mindset that, oh he must not have done his 10+ milers during the summer. I mean, it's bad enough running all by yourself at the back of every race, the occasional " Go Caltech" breaking the silence, but to have this feeling that when you do cross the finish line, you are just another kid who didn't train hard enough and got in over his head in collegiate running.
I suppose I have digressed yet again. Anyways yeah Ian is insane. I just read his essay about his trip to Wrightwood. He description of last year's trip with Will that left him unable to do anything but try very intently on not throwing up seemed eerily familiar to my mid-day 105 degree trip to Baldy village.
1) Ryan Hall and Sara Bei look like emaciated 12 year olds in that picture, and that makes me freak out.
2) As per (1) I think it's clear that elite athletes (read: people that look like Skeletor) HAVE to date other elite athletes simply because, let's face it, normal people need some cushion for the pushin'. If you're a normal woman trying to have sex with an elite (male or female) athlete, you will be sad because they probably weigh less than you. If you are a normal man trying to have sex with an elite (male or female) athlete, you will be sad because they are either stronger than you, faster than you, have more testosterone than you, or a combination of these things.
(3) In my experience, any successful relationship is about being comfortable being yourself around the other person. If you date a non-athlete, this means being able to explain and be comfortable about your running/cycling without feeling like you have to constantly justify your fanaticism to them. If you date an elite athlete (see (2)), ie someone who might be better/faster than you, this means being able to be comfortable being the "beta" athlete in the relationship. If you date someone around your ability level, this means not getting too competitive, coachy, or possessive about the other person's running.
(4) Kangway: Leer is super inferior hotness-wise to CFree. For example, here's a picture of him flying with two randos.
Megumi, I think I get what you're saying, and I agree for the most part. I mean, in most things, it's just impossibly difficult to describe to an experience to someone who has never felt anything like it. I mean, it's like trying to explain to someone who's never ridden a rollercoaster what it feels like. You can say "it feels like falling, but for a long time, and you go really fast." But you probably will never really get the feeling across.
So I guess that's what it's like with running. How do you explain to someone who's not a runner, or I guess not an endurance athlete, what feeling worn down is like? What bonking is like? It's not enough to say "You feel like you're dying, you just can't seem to move and you feel miserable." I feel like I could write a page on it, about the sugar craving and exhaustion, but it still would mean a million times less to someone who's never experienced it than someone who has.
So I guess what I'm saying is, those nights when you've just been training a little too hard for a few too many days, and your significant other starts poking at you in the bed, if they're a runner they'll probably understand when you groan and say "98 this week. I'm asexual. Goodnight."
I guess that last post really didn't identify my position on the matter though.
I mean, clearly, I don't think I need to date other runners. That's not to say that every time I go to a track meet I don't think "I wonder if there are any hot runner girls here." I certainly do think that. But in the end, I think at some point I've realized that there's more to life than running.
From my freshman to senior years of high school, the same guy at the local running shoe store sold me my shoes. We'd talk about everything, running, life, school, in the time that I took to pick out and try on 10 different pairs of shoes. I guess over time he sort of noticed how disappointed I would get at how seasons would end up, and he'd always just say "it's okay, there's more to life than running." Then once, I think it was before senior year, I went and bought a pair of shoes from him. We were talking about his high school PR's (4:19, 1:53) and went on to talk specifically about his seasons, and he ended up telling me about how the last season he raced ended pretty badly. At first it just sounded like a bad race, then he told me about how his best friend died in a car crash (a drunk driver hit a car full of track guys going into town to buy shoes) a few days before, and he was out of it. Then I guess I really felt what he meant by "there's more to life than running," and I sometimes still think about that.
Still, sometimes you lose perspective and the latest injury or bad workout just really gets to you. Maybe sometimes I'd think about the quenton cassidy way of things: giving up the woman cause running is so much more important ($10 says they get back together in the sequal). I guess Megumi still finds this totally true. But really, I guess, when I think about it, being that specific and that closed-minded means that you can miss out on a lot of very wonderful people out there.
I don't think that your boyfriend/girlfriend needs to understand running completely. I just think that they need to understand that it's important to you. If they just understand how much it means to you, and not necessarily completely why it means so much to you, then I think that's enough.
Sophomore year of high school I dated this senior girl, and we were both on the cross country team. She could run like a 19:30 3-mile or something, and that was pretty cool, and we could talk about running and stuff, but there was a lot that was lacking in the relationship. Actually, I guess I dated this girl twice, my sophomore year and senior year (her senior and sophomore years). I guess my point is that, even though megumi thinks that you need to understand someone's running to understand that person, I think that you can also say that you can understand someone's running and still not understand the person.
And I guess it comes down to if there exists a person out there who can understand you completely.
But I guess when I think about it, if I can just find someone who really understand how much it means to me, and if I at least try to explain why it means that much to me, then whether they're a runner or not shouldn't really affect my decision, because there are so many other qualities that go into a person that I would consider "more important."
To summarize: there's more to life than running, so you don't need to date a runner.
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